UNMIK ON AIR

23 Jan 2003

Interview with Michael Hartmann

(By Luan Qorraj)

Michael Hartmann: I was the first appointed international prosecutor. I got here in February 2000 where I have previously been working for the UN in Bosnia. I found this the most challenging, difficult and rewarding job I’ve ever had in my life. This system started with most of the judges having left and having to build a brand new judiciary using lawyers many of whom had not practiced or whom had not practiced as judges for a good part of the 90’s.

Hello and welcome to UNMIK on Air.

That was Michael Hartmann-the first, ever, international prosecutor to practice his duty in Kosovo, remembering the beginnings of the Kosovan judiciary.

Mr. Hartmann, was the prosecutor involved in most of the high-profile trials, and other numerous small ones that were held in post war Kosovo. Not an easy task, considering all the difficulties and controversies that have surrounded the judicial system. Ever since the beginning –the system has received praises as well as condemnations and accusations coming from all sides.

Albanians, in a lot of cases, claimed that the judiciary was pro-Serb and Serbs said it was pro-Albanian while the international community did it’s best to keep the balance.

Mr. Hartmann, has been closely following the developments of the justice system and says that there might have been mistakes, in the early stages, but that it was far from being pro-anything, and a lot of improvements were achieved in the past three years:

Michael Hartmann: What I’ve seen since then is a judiciary that is receiving training and experience and has improved in it’s decision making. So I see improvement, it is slow, but it is steady. You cannot do things quickly and I think they are going to be right. Is there room for more improvement, there certainly is.

One of the biggest obstacles-that some of the judges are facing, especially the locally appointed judges, are threats. Every now and then rumors about such happenings find their way to the local media, but in general there is not much talk about them. Even the judges that have been threatened usually do not mention anything about it to the authorities, or their colleagues.

Therefore, says Michael Hartmann, especially when it comes to high profile trials, internationally appointed judges find themselves in a much better position then the locals, who are much more vulnerable then their international counterparts:

Michael Hartmann: I am aware of some instances, and I emphasize “some”, where due to intimidation and fear, and coercion some judges are afraid to…for good reason to be afraid to detain or give high sentences to known powerful organized crime figures. It does not happen all the time, and we have some very courageous judges, both local and international, but I think we do realize that there are threats or intimidation. Even if the judge here, herself, is brave they have family here and that family can be hurt. That is one of the advantages of using internationals

One of the great criticisms that the judiciary, and the police service have been receiving is the “not enough arrests” accusation. Michael Hartmann says that the public shouldn’t be blaming the judiciary for that, but mainly themselves since, there are not enough witnesses. He acknowledges that, even with the witness protection program, witnesses can find themselves in danger but adds that sometimes people should endanger themselves for the benefit of the community:

Michael Hartmann: it is just not the matter of having proper resources for witness protection, though that helps, it is also that the people here, if they want Kosovo to be a good place to live for their children they have to take some risks. And they must come forward and feel the responsibility to come forward you need not only to have a good resourced and effective witness protection program but you need to have the willingness by people to come forward and to say what they saw.

Hartmann recalls one case where the testimonies of the local police officers, were the ones that brought up a conviction:

Michael Hartmann: The Bartecko case is very much in my mind because it was a very difficult prosecution. And because I believe it was the first conviction under the new Terrorist law that resulted in a conviction of a man for a terrorist murder of a Serb who was working at the center for Peace freedom and tolerance and that was a planned murder. And I appreciate the fact that it was the testimony not just of internationals but, there was critical testimony from the KPS that caused the conviction.

Hartmann says that one of the risks of a democratic judiciary is that, sometimes, villains do walk away. It happens for many reasons, be it the lack of evidence, the lack of witnesses and so on; but that’s the way democratic courts function all over the world, and the people have to accept this fact if they want to make sure that they do have a functioning, and fair, judiciary:

Michael Hartmann: It is better to have 10 guilty released then to wrongfully convict one innocent. Therefore you make absolutely sure that means some people who may have actually been guilty - in the eyes of the God. Whoever their god is. We can’t prove it to the judges and therefore the judges order the persons released. This is the price of having a fair judicial system.

A new criminal code is being drafted and soon, the parliament will vote on it. It is supposed to address all the issues coming out of the current system which is a hybrid between the pre-89’ Yugoslav law and the post-war UNMIK regulations. And it is also supposed to set the bases for the future Kosovan judicial system.

So, where does Mr. Hartmann see the Kosovan judiciary in the future: he says that it will all depend on how the society treats the system:

Michael Hartmann: There are different alternatives depending upon the interest of both local and internationals in continuing the professional growth of the judiciary. And that means they must be protected, they must be paid well-because with the pay as it is now I see several people who I respected greatly have either left or are considering leaving the judiciary- and last there must be accountability. If judges and prosecutors do good jobs, in 5 years you could have a very, very good, European judiciary here.

That was Michael Hartman, first appointed international prosecutor in Kosovo, our guest on today’s UNMIK on Air. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more.